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Post by Girl Power on Sept 7, 2007 20:02:49 GMT -5
Hey a genuine controversy on TViLike! Woo hoo! I wouldn't usually put such strong opinions out there (unless they involved how bad the movie Premonition was). But I felt compelled to answer Sharon, because I do agree with her. I don't think that Hef puts women on pedestals. He may put women's surgically enhanced bodies on pedestals as things to be treated as objects of lust and thrown away when they get too old for him to lust after anymore. I know that breast implants have become mainstream now. It makes me sad that so many girls and women feel they aren't acceptable as they are, but have to starve themselves and go through painful surgery just to be lovable. Since eating disorders are at an all time high and girls under ten are on diets at record numbers, it's not like this Hollywood driven attitude is without victims. I don't know how it is in Europe, but most women in the US hate how they look, even the young, thin ones. Women compete with each other mercilessly over appearance, because they just don't feel good enough as they are. Breast implants are the number one cosmetic surgery. Lots of teens get them now. Actresses often pose nude to prove that they're still young and sexy, jump start or restart their careers, or otherwise get some new attention. Hollywood in general has become more obsessed with sleazy people like Pamela Anderson and then Paris Hilton (who also reportedly got breast implants this year). But I don't think any of those people are good role models for girls and women to learn to love themselves and believe in themselves as they are.
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Post by CK-- on Sept 7, 2007 21:38:02 GMT -5
Hey a genuine controversy on TViLike! Woo hoo! I wouldn't usually put such strong opinions out there (unless they involved how bad the movie Premonition was). But I felt compelled to answer Sharon, because I do agree with her. I don't think that Hef puts women on pedestals. He may put women's surgically enhanced bodies on pedestals as things to be treated as objects of lust and thrown away when they get too old for him to lust after anymore. I know that breast implants have become mainstream now. It makes me sad that so many girls and women feel they aren't acceptable as they are, but have to starve themselves and go through painful surgery just to be lovable. Since eating disorders are at an all time high and girls under ten are on diets at record numbers, it's not like this Hollywood driven attitude is without victims. I don't know how it is in Europe, but most women in the US hate how they look, even the young, thin ones. Women compete with each other mercilessly over appearance, because they just don't feel good enough as they are. Breast implants are the number one cosmetic surgery. Lots of teens get them now. Actresses often pose nude to prove that they're still young and sexy, jump start or restart their careers, or otherwise get some new attention. Hollywood in general has become more obsessed with sleazy people like Pamela Anderson and then Paris Hilton (who also reportedly got breast implants this year). But I don't think any of those people are good role models for girls and women to learn to love themselves and believe in themselves as they are. Not to worry not much controversy here at the least we can always agree to disagree...LOL.... but the thing for this discussion (not controversy) is that I agree with you. I think that it is Horrible that young people, especially girls are brought up to believe that they have to fit a certain unattainable Ideal of beauty in order to be accepted. I think that it is truly sad that some girls and Guys (even guys are not immune...many trying to change their bodies to look like an Abercrombe and Fitch ideal of masculine beauty) go to extreme lengths and some to tragic ends trying to be accepted and loved. I think that it is a sad testament to society and the Advertising industry that creates these unattainable standards. The point I am making is that Playboy didn't create breast implants and not all Playboy Playmates have been "adjusted" air brushed yes, LOL but not necessarily adjusted. Of course a lot have. If I had a daughter who was head strong and wanted and insisted in posing nude for a magazine I would hope that she would choose a magazine like Playboy. One that will show her in a classical and tasteful manner instead of a magazine like Hustler who would show her spread eagle and in the most sleazy way possible. The women in Playboy are Goddesses compared to those trashy representations. Hugh Hefner loves to surround himself with beautiful women and like I said before his generosity is well known. I have never heard of any women that he has thrown away. he has put countless women through college and helped jump start careers. The majority of the "Playmates" have moved on to be quite successful and some to have families of their own. I am sure that there are a few tragic stories in the bunch but for the most part most of the girls look fondly at their time at Playboy. This can be seen in the various annual Playmate reunions that are held at the Playboy mansion each year. Hugh Hefner isn't a saint by no means but I do not see him as a lech either. Does Playboy profit from showing the unattainable ideal of beauty...of course!... but so does the fashion industry, Hollywood, Advertising and the media in general. Another bit of trivia...Playboy magazine is actually run by a woman... Hugh Hefner handed the reigns over to his daughter (Christie Hefner) in 1988. Hef still gives input and is listed as the editor in chief and chief creative officer but his daughter is Chairman of the Board and Chief Executive Officer so she runs the magazine.
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Post by Girl Power on Sept 7, 2007 22:30:40 GMT -5
Not to worry not much controversy here at the least we can always agree to disagree...LOL.... but the thing for this discussion (not controversy) is that I agree with you. I think that it is Horrible that young people, especially girls are brought up to believe that they have to fit a certain unattainable Ideal of beauty in order to be accepted. I think that it is truly sad that some girls and Guys (even guys are not immune...many trying to change their bodies to look like an Abercrombe and Fitch ideal of masculine beauty) go to extreme lengths and some to tragic ends trying to be accepted and loved. I think that it is a sad testament to society and the Advertising industry that creates these unattainable standards. The point I am making is that Playboy didn't create breast implants and not all Playboy Playmates have been "adjusted" air brushed yes, LOL but not necessarily adjusted. Of course a lot have. If I had a daughter who was head strong and wanted and insisted in posing nude for a magazine I would hope that she would choose a magazine like Playboy. One that will show her in a classical and tasteful manner instead of a magazine like Hustler who would show her spread eagle and in the most sleazy way possible. The women in Playboy are Goddesses compared to those trashy representations. Hugh Hefner loves to surround himself with beautiful women and like I said before his generosity is well known. I have never heard of any women that he has thrown away. he has put countless women through college and helped jump start careers. The majority of the "Playmates" have moved on to be quite successful and some to have families of their own. I am sure that there are a few tragic stories in the bunch but for the most part most of the girls look fondly at their time at Playboy. This can be seen in the various annual Playmate reunions that are held at the Playboy mansion each year. Hugh Hefner isn't a saint by no means but I do not see him as a lech either. Does Playboy profit from showing the unattainable ideal of beauty...of course!... but so does the fashion industry, Hollywood, Advertising and the media in general. Another bit of trivia...Playboy magazine is actually run by a woman... Hugh Hefner handed the reigns over to his daughter (Christie Hefner) in 1988. Hef still gives input and is listed as the editor in chief and chief creative officer but his daughter is Chairman of the Board and Chief Executive Officer so she runs the magazine. I knew that about his daughter running the magazine. It always baffled me. I'm glad that a lot of the models have gone on to have success in other areas. But I still don't think that a porn empire that makes women about sex objects to men, naked in the magazine, naked or in tiny outfits alongside fully dressed men at the parties, women taking their clothes off on TV, is a good thing to have gone mainstream. It's much like how stripping and strip clubs have become very mainstream now. If you think about how men posing naked or stripping wouldn't be respected by anyone, then you have to wonder why it's encouraged for women to do it. But I think you're right, Scotty. We'll agree to disagree! ;D
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Post by shep on Sept 8, 2007 16:04:49 GMT -5
Scotty, you have talked me into getting a copy of Playboy now!
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Post by msperoxideluv on Sept 10, 2007 14:40:40 GMT -5
Hey a genuine controversy on TViLike! Woo hoo! I wouldn't usually put such strong opinions out there (unless they involved how bad the movie Premonition was). But I felt compelled to answer Sharon, because I do agree with her. I don't think that Hef puts women on pedestals. He may put women's surgically enhanced bodies on pedestals as things to be treated as objects of lust and thrown away when they get too old for him to lust after anymore. I know that breast implants have become mainstream now. It makes me sad that so many girls and women feel they aren't acceptable as they are, but have to starve themselves and go through painful surgery just to be lovable. Since eating disorders are at an all time high and girls under ten are on diets at record numbers, it's not like this Hollywood driven attitude is without victims. I don't know how it is in Europe, but most women in the US hate how they look, even the young, thin ones. Women compete with each other mercilessly over appearance, because they just don't feel good enough as they are. Breast implants are the number one cosmetic surgery. Lots of teens get them now. Actresses often pose nude to prove that they're still young and sexy, jump start or restart their careers, or otherwise get some new attention. Hollywood in general has become more obsessed with sleazy people like Pamela Anderson and then Paris Hilton (who also reportedly got breast implants this year). But I don't think any of those people are good role models for girls and women to learn to love themselves and believe in themselves as they are. Wow, leave it to Shaz to stir up controversy... LOL Really didn't mean to. However, that being said... Many of you who know me, know I am not a prude (nor am I a radical feminist) and as I mentioned before, I have my guilty pleasure TV. And as "guilty pleasure TV" goes, I understand people being amused by it I guess. But, I was really surprised to see how many women on this forum- bright, confident, opinionated women, felt this show was so great! And so I asked the loaded question. I totally agree with Maria that it's the objectification of women and the insinuation that a woman is only as valuable as their waist, cup and bra size that I take offense with. All her points made above are valid, particularly the body image issues for US young girls and women. The fact that Hef's "girlfriends" are being seen as role models for today's girls and women is what I really found to be shocking. No one has a problem calling the "Flava of Love girls' "gold diggers, skanks, pathetic jokes, attention addicts", whatever.. But because Hef's babe's are glamorously packaged it's OK- it's fabulous and exciting=desireable. I guess I personally don't see the difference between Flav's girls and Hef's girls- other than the packaging. And as I would never see Flav's New York/Tiffany as a positive role model for women, neither would I see Kendra as one. But, as we said, above we can always agree to disagree! And to each his own. I do agree with Scotty that as skin mags go, Playboy does present women in a more glamorous, "artistic" and "classy" way than any of the other ones. But ultimately- it boils down to T & A. And Hef has made his vast empire from T&A, so at his age why would he ever stop now? Unfortunately, there are always going to be women like Kendra who will do whatever it takes to get their 15 minutes of fame and so it goes... Does Hef truly love and appreciate women.. probably.. but it's beside the point.. he has made his living off of their equipment for 50+ years... So, what would we call a man who makes his living off the bodies of his "girls"? HMMM.... Anyway, enough of my speech.. Thanks to all who helped answer my questions about the show... And to all a good night...
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Post by shep on Sept 10, 2007 16:04:37 GMT -5
Do you think that I am bright, confident, and opinionated then Shaz? Cheers for the compliments! Does anyone know why Crystal who is a cybergirl and tried to become a bunny but failed, why she and Hef arent dating? She hangs around with the girls alot and when she is on the show her name comes up with Hef's former girlfriend.
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Post by msperoxideluv on Sept 11, 2007 8:40:11 GMT -5
Do you think that I am bright, confident, and opinionated then Shaz? Cheers for the compliments! Does anyone know why Crystal who is a cybergirl and tried to become a bunny but failed, why she and Hef arent dating? She hangs around with the girls alot and when she is on the show her name comes up with Hef's former girlfriend. Absolutely Ali!! I'm always really impressed with the "big brains" on this forum! You, Vicks, Maria, Shivi (just to name a few) are all sharp as tacks, that's one of the reasons I enjoy this forum so much.. Plus, the guys are fun as well... Kent, Max, etc..
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Post by shep on Sept 11, 2007 9:41:48 GMT -5
Aaah bless you Shaz!
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Post by shep on Dec 28, 2007 17:18:41 GMT -5
Season 4 starts in England January 20th x
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